I haven’t done much blog reading recently and last week as I was looking at Phil Sumpter’s Narrative and Ontology and regretting that I will probably never have time to catch up on his posts on Brevard Childs, one of his links caught my eye. (He has this blogroll which actually tells you what people are writing on which is very useful – I’m not sure if WordPress can do that but I must investigate when I get down to some blog housekeeping…) I saw a post entitled The Arrogant Papal Brow by Father Milovan Katanic of Again and Again and, thinking that the pope might actually have gone and done something significant, went and clicked on it. I got really infuriated when I read it as there was nothing new, but it seems that there has been a whole lot of talk in the blogosphere about an imminent reunion of the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. This is, quite frankly, just scaremongering and I was reminded of the Patriarch of Constantinople’s encyclical for the Sunday of Othodoxy this year where he wrote:
In their polemical argumentation, these critics of the restoration of unity among Christians do not even hesitate to distort reality in order to deceive and arouse the faithful. … They disseminate false rumors that union between the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches is imminent, while they know well that the differences discussed in these theological dialogues remain numerous and require lengthy debate; moreover, union is not decided by theological commissions but by Church Synods. They assert that the Pope will supposedly subjugate the Orthodox, because the latter submit to dialogue with the Roman Catholics!
I thought of posting on this then, but was concerned that I’d just end up ranting. I also realised that these Orthodox reactions – which whenever there is contact between Orthodox and Catholic hierarchs scream that the Orthodox Church is about to capitulate to papal arrogance, the pan-ecumenical heresy etc. etc. – are in a sense simply a mirror image of some of the reactions which I have experienced among Catholics. All too often they also see such contacts as indicating that we are on the verge of unity, that the differences between the Churches have actually been sorted out, or are simply unimportant, and that all we need to do is say a few prayers and be polite to one another and that life can go on as it was.
When faced with either of these extremes who seem to think that unity is imminent – the one horrified at the prospect and the other delighted at it – I have tended to wonder: am I living on another planet? If people have such a minimal grasp on reality, then where can one start to talk? And are people interested in really listening? I do believe that unity is important and that dialogue is important. But then it must start from reality as it is and should enable one to really listen to the issues involved. And the issues are not simply the pope and the filioque, which may or may not be resolved in the official dialogues; they also go much deeper and touch on the lives of ordinary believers.
I was therefore pleased when Deacon Stephen wrote a very sensible post on the subject. He is by no means rejecting dialogue but argues that the resolution of the issues separating Orthodox and Catholics will require considerably more than polite contact between the hierarchs of both Churches.
Unity is a lot more than Orthodox and Roman Catholic bishops visiting and being polite to each other. I’m all in favour of them doing that, and even doing the same thing with Anglican and Zionist bishops, but it doesn’t mean that reunion is imminent.
Some think that it is only a few minor theological issues that can be sorted out quickly. But it’s not just papal primacy and the Filioque that keep us apart, but a millennium of history. We differ in soteriology (Anselm’s theory of the atonement, which swept the west, never got much traction in Orthodoxy), ecclesiology (the Orthodox temple versus the Roman monolith and the Protestant heap of stones) and missiology (Roman missiologists believe that Orthodox missiology is derived from Origen).
All these have led to a different culture and ethos, and this is just as much theology as the kind of theology that is written in books. And so before there can be any reunion, these things must be faced and examined.
There was some reaction to his post which had the potential to become a rather interesting discussion, but instead of doing that there he has proposed continuing the discussion at the Thandanani forum. (“Thandanani is a Zulu word meaning “love one another” and is a space for Christians from different backgrounds to learn more about each other in an atmosphere of mutual respect). If there are readers who are genuinely concerned with dialogue and unity, or with understanding the issues involved between Orthodox and Catholics, I would encourage them to continue this discussion there.
***
As an aside, in case there are readers who don’t follow his blogs, Deacon Stephen (Steve Hayes – I never quite know what to do with this title thing!) is one of the soundest Orthodox bloggers that I’m aware of and he has had some excellent posts – Spiritual but not religious was particularly good – on Khanya recently which I thought of recommending but never got to. Of course, the fact that he’s a South African is also a recommendation!
June 28, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Dear Macrina,
I agree with you! Differences abound at many levels between Catholic and Orthodox. I don’t want to get into the notions of east versus west in what I say here because very often, albeit denied vehemently by some Orthodox believers, the Catholic Church has not absorbed or promulgated all of the rabbit trails of scholasticism!
The difficulty that I perceive on all sides, but particularly on the Orthodox side, is the fact that in 15 or more years in engaging the dialogue in person and through this medium, I have never heard and Orthodox believer ever even suggest that we interrogate any of these sharp doctrinal differences in terms of whether or not they warrant or constitute formal schism.
Nor do they ever seek to consider whether or not more modern Orthodox theologians have badly read Catholic teaching, rather substituting and reacting to “western” scholastic rabbit holes.
For example I’ve put pages of text from Anselm on-line and discussed the points and perspectives at length with fair results until I mention that it is Anselm that we’ve been discussing and the door slams shut.
I think we need to add attitudes of heart and mind to the mix and also discuss the import of doctrinal differences in terms of what constitutes grounds for formal schism or not. Otherwise you get the very kinds of discussion that you deplore here, and rightly so on both sides.
Mary
June 28, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Mary,
Thank you for your comment. It is not for me to decide what differences constitute grounds for schism. However I do think that the different ways that Catholics and Othodox approach this question – and their understandings of dogma and of the Church – is I think one of the questions that need to be discussed in coming to better understand one another. But I think that it would be better to continue that discussion at Thandanani and, if I can get my thoughts together sufficiently, am about to go and post something there.
One point though: while I’m sure that modern Orthodox readings of Catholicism may often be too simplistic (although I also think that they are reacting to real issues) it is not true to say that “Nor do they ever seek to consider whether or not more modern Orthodox theologians have badly read Catholic teaching.” The example that springs to my mind of an Orthodox theologian doing exactly this is an article by Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev discussing St Ignatius Brianchaninov’s views of Catholic mysticism by placing them in their proper context in this paper.
June 28, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Thank you! for being kind to some of my more extreme expressions of realities that are of concern to me….I should have said “In my 15 year experience, I’ve never met an individual who…etc.”
I love to read St. Ignatius when he is not doing Orthodox-Catholic comparisons. The same applies to any of the writings of Father Dumitru Staniloae or even and perhaps especially Lossky’s work. Bulgakov is another whose work I enjoy and have used regularly in catechizing eastern Catholics.
But to have to wade through what seem like mountains of bad tempered and misapprehended understandings of Catholic teaching to get there does not bend even an open mind in positive directions without a struggle.
Many others of my Catholic brothers and sisters, with fairly decent minds and grasp of doctrinal nuance, and who know the difference between the teachings of St. Thomas and scholastic rabbit trails, will toss the texts without any struggle at all.
This I think has been a terrible shame for both the authors and the potential readers who refuse to cultivate patience and try to develop understanding, and does not help in the efforts to reach any kind of accords on any level.
M.
June 28, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Update: I had to register first, so I won’t get to posting there until tomorrow.
July 6, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Surely we should not be looking for grounds for formal schism, since the schism is already there. We need rather to be looking at what it would take to heal the schism.
And it’s more than just the Filioque. In 1979 an Anglican synkid in South Africa agreed to drop the Filioque, as a kind of irenic gesture to the Orthodox. But the reason thaey were willing to drop it was that they didn’t see it as important, and that they didn’t see it as a problem. And is precisely that that the Orthodox would see as a problem. The main problem is that they don’t see the problem. The synod went on to make several other decisions that the Orthodeox would find just as problematic as the Filioque. So the Anglicans were willing to take one step towards unity, and three steps back.
June 28, 2010 at 3:47 pm
FYI…Don’t need to post this necessarily but I thought you might be interested if you have not seen it yet.
Church unity cannot be manufactured, Cardinal Kasper says as retirement nears
Rome, Italy, Jun 25, 2010 / 04:07 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Cardinal Walter Kasper, at 77 years old, is wrapping up his tenure as the president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. On Friday, he reflected on his years in the position and the importance of dialogue to the life of the Church.
“I have come to the end of my service,” the cardinal told reporters in a press conference from the council’s offices near the Vatican, during which, according to excerpts of his address printed by the Italian bishops’ SIR news, he recalled his 11 years at the helm as not only demanding, but “riveting.”
As president of the dicastery he has been responsible for promoting dialogue between the Universal Church and other Christian denominations, in addition he has dedicated himself to building inter-religious relations particularly between Catholics, Jews and Muslims.
Commenting on the current state of ecumenical and inter-religious relations, he said that personal relations of respect, esteem, confidence and friendship are vital to successful dialogue.
“Whenever such relations are missing, there cannot be any fruitful dialogue, which is always a dialogue of life. Ecumenism is not done from one’s desk. Dialogue is life. Dialogue is an integral part of the life of the Church.”
Referring to today’s environment, he said that the ecumenical groundwork in place now is a “sound network of human relationships with Christians” which is durable and solid. This network, the cardinal said, will help achieve further progress.
This, he said, “is the real ecumenical innovation,” adding that “the focus and the soul of such a lively ecumenism is spiritual ecumenism.
“The unity of the Church cannot be planned or manufactured,” he noted.
Reflecting on ups and downs of his time as president, he said, “I leave my office with hope, which is not human optimism, but Christian hope.” Cardinal Kasper also said he is confident that “ecumenism is not an extra, but a constituent of the Church.”
He concluded by saying that the “torch” would now be taken over by a new generation who will bring a fresh vision to dialogue.
No one has been nominated as the future president of the dicastery, and Cardinal Kasper has not officially stepped down, but it is widely known that a change is imminent.
June 28, 2010 at 11:32 pm
I’ve found these two Orthodox blogs to be among the best.
http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/
http://bekkos.wordpress.com/